Reclaiming Outdoor Spaces

Venture with us into the Reclaiming Outdoor Spaces episode where Rue Mapp of Outdoor Afro and Ronda Chapman from the Trust for Public Land discuss their efforts to reconnect Black communities with nature's joys and healing powers.  Their stories weave a narrative tapestry that celebrates culture, fosters community, and uplifts Black voices in the outdoor spaces.

While both Rue and Ronda bring to light the systemic racism that has long kept outdoor spaces out of reach for many, each, in their individual efforts, also stitches a roadmap toward repair and reclamation. Together, their visions converge on a future where the laughter of children playing in parks and families gathering in green spaces is not a privilege for a few but a common melody for all. Through powerful storytelling and relentless advocacy, this episode is an ode to the beauty of perseverance and the collective effort to ensure that everyone has the opportunity to find solace, adventure, and a sense of belonging under the canopy of shared skies.

Rue Mapp candidly documents her personal experiences while pioneering and shifting a new visual representation of Black people in the outdoors. The outdoorswoman transformed her kitchen table blog into a national nature-inspired enterprise and movement. Today, Mapp is the founder and CEO of where Black people and nature meet: Outdoor Afro. For more than a decade, the not- for-profit organization has continued to celebrate and inspire Black connections and leadership in nature across the United States. Mapp’s work in nature and outdoor-related fields started in her hometown of Oakland, California, and has since grown to inspire international headlines. Mapp is an awarded and inspirational leader, speaker, public lands champion, outdoor gear designer, and published author.

She established for-profit enterprise Outdoor Afro, Inc. in 2021 and subsequently launched a 22-piece hike collection with outdoor retailer REI Co-op. Her first national book titled “Nature Swagger: Stories and Visions of Black Joy in the Outdoors” released with American publisher Chronicle Books on Nov. 1, 2022. For more than a decade, Mapp has been recognized with many awards and distinctions. She won the 2023 international Bessie Awards in the Journey Woman category by global lifestyle and travel brand Wanderful. She was recognized as a 2021 AFAR Travel Vanguard Award recipient, 2019 National Geographic Fellow, Heinz Awards Honoree, and National Wildlife Federation Communication Award recipient (received alongside President Bill Clinton). The White House also invited Mapp to participate in the America’s Great Outdoors Conference, which led to her participation in the launch of former First Lady Michelle Obama’s “Let’s Move” initiative. Mapp’s career and community impact through Outdoor Afro aims to lift up the natural world and those who connect with it. Her advocacy for conservation continues to earn international media attention, including The New York Times, Good Morning America, NPR, NBC’s TODAY, Forbes, Oprah Winfrey, and “MeatEater” with Steven Rinella.

Ronda Chapman is a JEDI (Justice, Equity, Diversity, Inclusion) National Expert with a focus on equitable access for all to the outdoors. She has decades of experience developing strategies for organizations in the context of racial and economic justice. Ronda is a nationally-recognized public speaker and thought leader working to advance organizations’ efforts in the areas of sustainability, climate resilience, community empowerment, and racial equity. A tried and true nature lover, she derives the most joy from experiences outside: water, land, and sky.

Angela Glover Blackwell: 0:06

Welcome to the Radical Imagination Podcast, where we dive into the stories and solutions that are fueling change. I'm your host, angela Glover Blackwell. For some, the outdoors are viewed as places of comfort, relaxation, and safety. The reality, however, is that these spaces have not been welcoming to all.

Media Clip: 0:24

There is an African-American man. I am in Central Park. He is recording me, threatening myself and my dog.

Angela Glover Blackwell: 0:32

Racism and discrimination have made outdoor spaces like public pools and national parks off limits or unenjoyable for many people of color. In today's episode, we dig into what a truly welcoming and equitable outdoors looks like. We'll hear from two black women who were doing the work to break down barriers and increase representation for communities of color in the outdoors, so that these spaces become safe and inclusive for all. We are first joined by Rue Mapp, founder and CEO of Outdoor Afro, a non-profit organization that works to encourage black people to connect with nature through outdoor activities. Rue, welcome to Radical Imagination.

Rue Mapp: 1:16

Oh, thank you so much for having me.

Angela Glover Blackwell: 1:19

You were doing amazing things, encouraging Black activism around the outdoors. I am curious about your personal journey. What led you to focus on the black community and the outdoors?

Rue Mapp: 1:31

Yeah, that is a great question because there were so many elements. It's like a tapestry of experience and family history that brought me into this moment. I was raised by parents from the South my dad from Texas, my mom from Louisiana –and they were a part of that Great Migration from the South to northern cities, western cities, eastern cities and my family landed in Oakland, California. What my family brought with them was their love for the outdoors, so much so that they established a family ranch about 100 miles north of Oakland. And that was a platform for welcoming, for exploration, and it was also a site of the most profound hospitality. Then I built on those experiences as a Girl Scout and later as an Outward Bound student and then as a young mother. It was an affordable and easy way to experience vacation by camping or hiking or family bike rides. But as I continued to learn so much about myself, others and the environment. I didn't see representation of people who looked like me in spaces, especially as I got further away from the city. I also didn't see a visual representation of Black people in the outdoors, represented as strong, beautiful and free. Having a mentor who asked me a pivotal question back in 2009, what would you do if time and money wasn't an issue, I said I'd probably start a website to help reconnect Black people to the outdoors. In two weeks after that conversation, I whimsically took a Google template, called it Outdoor Afro, and we were off since then and started just telling the stories of my family and hearing the stories of so many others. And Outdoor Afro, as you know, now has grown into a national not-for-profit organization that touches the lives of thousands in person and millions more online.

Angela Glover Blackwell: 3:43

You know, it is so interesting that there is a conversation about what I guess one could call a nature gap when it comes to Black communities in the outdoors. Historically, whether thinking about our African roots or connections to the American South, Black people have had a long and deep relationship with the land. So how is it today that Black people in this country face a nature gap?

Rue Mapp: 4:06

It's such an interesting conversation to have because I believe that there is a prevailing narrative out there about what Black people don't do or what Black people don't have access to, and I think it's important to do two things. One, remember our history. as you pointed out, In a not-so-distant past, Black people were the owners and operators of lodges and resorts. during the darkest times of American life for Black people, We were in places like Oak, Bluffs and Martha's Vineyard – and in fact still are –. Lincoln Hills, Lake, Ivanhoe, and so many more places of purpose to be in the outdoors. And, of course, when integration happened, a lot of those places faded away.

Angela Glover Blackwell: 4:58

I want to go back to when you were talking about how the separation developed. You talked about, historically, the fact that black people owned a lot of resorts. I grew up in St. Louis., Missouri segregated St Louis Missouri in the 1950s and 60s, and I remember my family going to a place perhaps it was in the Ozarks where the Black people from St Louis went to be able to be out in their nature you talked about, and then desegregation happened. Is the inference there that Black people stopped supporting the Black resorts that they had gone to during segregation, or was there another implication you were bringing forth?

Rue Mapp: 5:38

Yeah, it's hard to say. I mean, I think that there was just a scattering, a decentralization of resources and attention. It's something that I'm continuing to inquire about. I'm not at all suggesting that segregation was the thing for us as Black people. It was fraught with lots of other challenges, but I think that there was some kind of momentum and attention lost. I think the stories and the histories of those places were forgotten and, as I entered the environmental and outdoor space there became this narrative that had taken root that we just didn't do it. And I knew my family's history and I knew the stories, like yours and of so many others, and so Outdoor Afro has deliberately decided to stand on the shoulders of those stories, of an empowered story, something that we can build on and talk about from an asset-based perspective. One of the things that we do with Outdoor Afro, when we get people into outdoor experiences, we tap into the local Black history and often the Black history that exists in a lot of natural places, of belonging, of being in those places. That helps to create that connection or reconnection.

Angela Glover Blackwell: 6:56

Outdoor Afro states that its mission is to connect Black people to their lands, to nature, to wildlife. Can you share examples of some outdoor activities and programs the organization promotes to do this?

Rue Mapp: 7:09

Yes, so I started a group of Outdoor Afro volunteers back in 2012. We weren't even an organization then. It was all very much a passion project and a startup and I was personally leading people into outdoor experiences. I had tapped into what I learned growing up in my family and trained those volunteers to go out in their communities, in their towns and hamlets and to get people to hike, to go biking, to go bird watching, to go kayaking. There's so many resources right in our cities, through our city parks that you don't have to go far to enjoy. And so that group has grown. We train a new class every year and this year's class has over 100 men and women who are now touching the lives of 60,000 people to do all kinds of activities. And even capstone activities in that group that include pilgrimaging to Tanzania to climb Mount Kilimanjaro or walking along the Appalachian Trail in Harriet Tubman's footsteps. And so we have just everyday people who become leaders, who are peer volunteer leaders that help folks get outside. And then, secondly, in response to the profound rate of drowning among Black children, who drown at seven times that of their white peers ages five through 17. And we can trace that back to the Jim Crow experience of segregated and just the lack of available pools for Black children for an extended time, and we are helping teach black children in our sphere of influence how to swim.

Angela Glover Blackwell 8:59

I've heard about that program. I think you call it Making Waves. Is that right?

Rue Mapp: 9:03

Yes, yes, And the way that it works is we receive funding through generous donations from individuals and from our partners, and people can reach out to us with the swim lessons of their choosing, because people live in different places, they have different options from place to place, they also have different needs. And also it's not just for children. it's children and their caregivers, because we're finding that the gap of knowledge around swimming can sometimes span three generations. So you find your swim lesson and you go to our website and we will give you what's called a swimmership and we will pay the provider directly.

Angela Glover Blackwell: 9:48

This is so exciting. I'm particularly drawn to the way that you're consciously thinking about families and caregivers and not just pulling children out, but making sure that the whole family, and it sounds like it ripples to the community. This is really community building and probably community healing. Absolutely Tell us, was that something that you were conscious of when developing the program?

Rue Mapp: 10:12

It's been a 14-year journey, starting in 2009, of course, with the blog, But I have been so plugged into the community and have been very much a student of what the community wants of Outdoor fro, And I'll never forget when Ferguson blew up. "If you are on the Quick Trip lot, you are unlawfully assembled and you will be subject to arrest.

Media Clip: 10:39

Please leave the Quick Trip lot.

Rue Mapp: 10:43

Our headquarters is in Oakland, and Oakland was bracing for similar violence in the streets. There was helicopters overhead and people nailing up their storefronts with plywood. And I'm walking to my car after work and I'm like mid-40s at that time. Three kids at home waiting on dinner. I knew I was not going to be taking to the streets that night, But I asked what is it that I need to do as a Black woman leading a Black focused organization oriented around people being and feeling free in the outdoors? And the answer came to me just as plain. It was like you do nature, Rue, that is your lane. And that weekend got together about 30 people from various partnerships and from the community and we went to the Oakland Hills, where the Redwoods have always been a place of peace and refuge for me throughout my life, and we did our first healing hike. And I tell you, when we were on that trail, there was no helicopters overhead, there were no police in riot gear and that forest could just simply absorb everything that was going on with us. And we weren't all the same age, of the same thought. You know we're all very diverse in our viewpoints about what was happening, but we all felt the weight, and that weight was falling off as we went down into that valley, in that forest, that Redwood forest, and it just occurred to me that we were doing what black people have always known we could do, and that is to lay down our burdens down by the riverside.

Angela Glover Blackwell: 12:37

Outdoor Afro Inc. A for-profit enterprise, was established to help combat the design barriers in outdoor gear and equipment. What inspired you to translate this work into a profit-making enterprise, and have you been surprised that your expertise and knowledge have translated so well into business?

Rue Mapp: 12:57

I have been an entrepreneur all my life and I've also made clothes all of my life. Like my mom was a seamstress, and so I was at the foot of her sewing machine and learning about how to pick out fabrics and patterns and studying those patterns. And then I started my first business when I was 18 years old and began designing clothes with a collective of young designers in San Francisco, And it was during that time I had a boyfriend who was a snowboarder and I made him snowboarding pants, informed by some of the design barriers that he found that were problematic for his experience. And so, with starting Outdoor Afro, I was partnered with so many outdoor brands, from shoe brands, jackets and all kinds of gear, and I would be given gear and I felt like I was wearing like very expensive clothes that made me just look like a dumpster fire. I was like who invented these zip-off pants for hiking? There was just so many quirky things about outdoor gear that just didn't translate into how I wanted to represent myself and I felt like I really wanted to have a design solution so that you could have the performance you need for your outdoor activities but you didn't have to leave your sense of style and swagger, quite frankly, at the door. And so I had been partnered with REI in some form or fashion, really from the very beginning of Outdoor Afro, before we were even in organization, and I had the support of our board chair, Beth Pratt, and in fact the entire board, to really embrace this bigger vision that was rooted in a solution for the Black community. Because one of the things we did learn over the years is that gear and equipment was a barrier. It's just simply overwhelming for a lot of people. What they need to buy and then what's available is very expensive and doesn't make a lot of sense for their regular lives. So I was eventually able to come back to REI as Outdoor Afro Incorporated – a separate for-profit –and and and we went into the design process together and they were able to express exactly what I had hoped to achieve through design, and I really wanted to tap into old school, like 90s hip hop. If you look at the hero product in the collection, which is a hype piece height collection that was just released last November, you're gonna see pants that remind you of the parachute pants from the 80s. The colors are gonna give Salt salt Pepa and pepper kind of vibe.

Angela Glover Blackwell: 15:59

Extraordinary. I just love the way you've been able to bring your whole self to this venture. I wonder if you face barriers as a Black woman in a space that is often prevented. leadership for women of color.

Rue Mapp: 16:12

I have to admit like I didn't get the most joyful support because in the beginning of Outdoor Afro. There wasn't any money. I had three kids. I was divorced so I was raising them on my own. then, secondly, there really weren't other role models in leadership in this outdoor space is mostly white and male who were leading these organizations. And so here I am, I look back and I'm thinking and it was pretty gutsy of me and also a little crazy even to walk into those rooms and feel absolutely entitled to be there.

Angela Glover Blackwell: 16:47

I must say your clarity and confidence are absolutely invigorating and inspiring. Oh, thank you. To be able to see your work have impact, to see the times change in a positive direction. It makes me curious how do you interact with the concept of hope?

Rue Mapp: 17:09

Hope is all there is and it correlates strongly with my faith in God. If I look back and I just kind of write down on paper all of the adversity that I was facing with the three young children, one income, living in the Bay Area, all the hard work it took to go back to school at that time, I've had so many reasons to just sit down and not do much of anything but survive. But there was something on my heart that's been given to me that felt powerful and precious from the very start and also felt bigger than me, and it's something that I'm able to tap into. That allows me to, I guess, be unreasonable.. Again. It's a faith. Walk right. Hope and faith are, in my mind, synonymous in that it is a vision of something that has no evidence, and I think it's important for more Black people to see and hopefully be inspired for what might be possible for them.

Angela Glover Blackwell: 18:26

Rue, thank you for speaking with us. It's been such a pleasure.

Rue Mapp: 18:29

Oh, Angela, it's really been a pleasure. I've enjoyed this conversation.

Angela Glover Blackwell: 18:38

Rue Mapp is the Founder and CEO of Outdoor Afro. Next up on Radical Imagination, we continue the conversation about equity in the outdoors and look specifically at how parks can be more accessible for marginalized communities. We're now joined by Ronda Chapman, Equity Director of the Trusts for Public Land. Ronda, welcome to Radical Imagination. Thank you, Angela, It's nice to be here. Let's start with the big picture. When you think about your own vision for this work, what does an equitable outdoors actually look like?

Ronda Chapman: 19:35

When I think about my big vision and equitable outdoors, it looks like one in which everybody is safe and everybody has a sense of belonging, and by that I mean people have a journey from when they walk out their front door to a destination and along the way they are surrounded by aspects of nature. So, whether that's a tree canopy, whether it's birds, there's high quality landscape. It's a place where I don't feel like I'm being policed as I'm walking through it. I don't feel that people will have a right to question how long I can linger, who I can be with, how many people I can be with. There are a lot of instances in our society where, you know, for folks of color myself, as a Black American woman when I walk out the door, I immediately have to be very mindful of what my surroundings include. I have to keep my head on a swivel, And so when I think about an equitable outdoors, it's a place, again, where I'm safe, but it also is an experience where there are a lot of amenities. So, for example, if I want to go into a park, I'm going to have a nice bench to sit on. I'm going to have a water fountain to drink from. Maybe there'll be some programming so that I can connect with my community members, my neighbors, I can meet new people, I can dance if I want to. So it's going to be a place that just feels free.

Angela Glover Blackwell: 21:04

You work at the intersection of parks, community and equity. Historically, a multitude of public spaces weren't conceived for all communities. Sadly, racism and exclusivity have loomed large. What are some specific factors that have made outdoor spaces inequitable for communities of color?

Ronda Chapman: 21:26

Well gosh, we can just go back to public pools. When it was illegal for us to enter into a pool house. To get into the water, they had designated times that were allotted for when Black folks and folks of color were even able to get into it. There are other areas in the nation where folks also have not been able to engage, such as the Shenandoah National Park had segregated camping sites where people of color had to camp in the corner of the parkway and not be able to enter into the main house on the campgrounds because they were Black. They actually had racially segregated campsites, and that's something that didn't change until very recently, And so current inequities in park space and park access are definitely the result of decades of policy decisions. Situations like redlining and racially restrictive covenants were really common throughout the United States, and so one of the first steps towards correcting those injustices is understanding their impact.

Angela Glover Blackwell: 22:44

You are the equity director for the Trust for Public Land and specifically the Trust for Public Land has come up with a park score index that rates the 100 most populous cities in the US. Can you tell us about this tool and what you hope to accomplish with this database?

Ronda Chapman: 23:05

So the Trust for Public Land. you know it's important to talk about the mission as a national nonprofit that creates parks and protects land for people, that we ensure healthy, livable communities for all the generations to come, and the park score tool is something that really supports that mission and I'll share that. for the past 12 years, we've been interacting with park-owning agencies to gather data for those 100 most populous cities and then we use that data to rank each park equally, and we do it over five rating factors we look at park access, we look at park equity, we look at park acreage, park investment and we look at the park amenities. And what we hope to gain from having the park score tool is to have it be an effective resource that can generate really important discussions among decision- makers and park advocates. We work with municipal leaders, we talk with community members, health practitioners, academia and even the federal administration And as a result of park score, for example, just in the first five months of 2022, we had 308 cities use park score to evaluate the impact of a potential park or trail or open space in terms of the access to being within a 10-minute walk, and then use that information to make the case to close their park equity gap and use that information to inspire new investment and inspire new policies.

Angela Glover Blackwell: 24:45

I know you as an equity advocate around water. Clearly you're doing it now around parks and open space and I imagine that over time you have seen progress and you have seen retrenchment. Are you hopeful regarding the future?

Ronda Chapman: 25:03

I am hopeful regarding the future and it's because I see a lot of formations of organizers of color who are creating spaces for folks who look like us to engage, and they are giving me hope because their constituents are getting younger and younger and so it feels like the future trajectory is quite positive. And when I look at the younger generations, or the generations behind me, and I watch the way they advocate for climate justice, I watch the way they advocate for environmental justice, I watch the way they advocate for a right to camp and play and recreate outside, I have all the faith in the world that they're going to be okay.

Angela Glover Blackwell: 25:54

Ronda, thank you for your work and thank you for speaking with us.

Ronda Chapman:

Thank you, Angela.

Angela Glover Blackwell:

Ronda Chapman is the equity director of the Trust F Public Land. People of color have deep historical and ancestral connections to outdoor spaces. Today's episode reminds me of the way the outdoors has and can feed our souls. When we connect to those deep seated and powerful parts of who we are, when we allow ourselves to be led by our mightier ambitions, we transform ourselves, our communities and our future. Radical Imagination is a Policy Link podcast produced by Futuro Media. The Futuro Media team includes Marlon Bishop, Andreas Caballero, Nour Saudi, stephanie LeBow, julia Caruso and Andy Bosnick, with help from Roxanna Agiri, Fernanda Santos, Juan Diego Ramirez and Roxanne Scott. The Policy Link team includes Glenda Johnson, Loren Madden, Ferchil Ramos, Vanice Dunn, Perfecta Oxholm, Eugene Chan and Fran Smith. Our theme music was composed by Taka Yusuzawa and Alex Suguira. I'm your host, Angela Glover Blackwell. Join us again next time and in the meantime, you can find us online at radicalimagination. us. Remember to subscribe and share.

Angela Glover Blackwell: 27:49

Next time on Radical Imagination Revolutionary young leadership. Going full force into recruiting young, diverse candidates for state and local office. We believe that is where a lot of those things can be changed.

Angela Glover Blackwell: 28:04

See you next time on Radical Imagination.